Know Thy Enemy

[deusex]

I know this is not about underwear, but it's important enough for me to make the exception. It was also inspired by the other dug up post where a "straight" member is confused by "new" thoughts he's having about seeing guy's bulges.

(from the Right Wing Watch website (http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/american-family-association)): "The American Family Association (AFA) has been a long-time promoter of "traditional moral values" in the media, particularly television. AFA built its reputation on organizing boycotts against sponsors of TV shows with "anti-Christian" messages and ideas, or against companies it claims support the so-called "homosexual agenda" or marriage equality."

They are a powerful organization with lots of money and have been very successful in pressuring politicians and corporations. Just one example is when Michigan voters voted to amend their constitution to ban same sex marriage (which through lies and deceit removed even more rights (http://www.indegayforum.org/news/show/31176.html)) they then sued MSU (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2007/02/02/national/a071157S68.DTL) (Michigan State University) because it provided benefits to same sex couples and won.

The reason I bring this up is that they have produced an hour long program that's filmed (very convincingly) to be like an investigative new report and are airing it on any channel they can coerce during prime time. Just this weekend, WFLA-8 of St. Petersburg, Florida aired the program (http://www.queerty.com/florida-treated-to-1-hour-infomercial-on-homosexual-activist-agenda-20090628/), the day of that city's Gay Pride Day (also the anniversary of Stonewall.) Of course they refused to answer calls of viewers complaining.

As you can probably guess, the whole program is a whole bunch of lies and half-truths with "professionals" to give credibility. Of course the "professionals" are mostly psychologists with an agenda. There's also an ex-gay (lesbian) who's been cured (suppressed?) Also of note is the Philadelphia 11, who decided to protest a gay pride event. According to the program they were peacefully spreading the word of the bible and they got arrested and will be going to jail, but after a little searching, you can find the truth that they were not peaceful, resisted arrest, and I just read yesterday that they are getting the charges dropped.

So, the video is here:

http://www.silencingchristians.com/

Anyway, please take the time to watch it, so you know just how damaging it is. It's disgusting, so make sure you don't watch it on a full stomach and have a barf bag by your side.

Being gay is not a choice and there doesn't seem to be a "gay gene." Results of studies have been pointing to something that happens early in development (as in the womb.) Yet most of the anti-gay religious freaks use the argument that being gay is a lifestyle choice. 60 minutes did an interesting piece on trying to discover if gay is nature or nurture (which anyone who's gay knows the answer) but for the crazy hate mongering bible thumpers here's a video for them:

part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOO1Y4OryWY
part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYEJpcAHz5k

My questions to those who believe being gay is a choice - how would you know? When did you "choose" to be straight?

And a new video just released by some unknown religious cult trying to cure a young teen. The video is 20 minutes where the young boy writhes on the floor and even throws up as they try to "exorcise the homosexual demon"

This is pretty scary stuff:

Full 20 minute video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhedHERfcXk
News cast with subtitles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs8ZKPYg1i4

The bottom line is, if you are what you are and that's ok (as long as you don't hurt anyone) there's no need to define yourself with a title.

I've just spent the weekend down at Toronto Pride with a million (no joke) other people from every walk of life, gay, lesbian, straight, transgender, bisexual and everything in between. It's 100% endorsed by our city, our politicians, our police walk in the parade handing out beads, our firefighters ride in trucks in the parade (soaking everyone), our transit people are there, our military are there (in uniform! hot!!!) Everyone is celebrating diversity. It's the way it should be and I couldn't be more proud of my city. I just wish that the infectious spirit of the celebration catches on to our neighbors down south and the bigots and the haters will (sooner rather than later) be shunned to embarrassment as the people who fought against black liberation, the right of women to vote, interracial marriage, etc..

I know I'm not the most eloquent writer, but I'm sure you get my gist. There's still a lot of work to be done to shut those religious fanatics up. My life isn't dictated by a fictional book that's constantly being interpreted to support one person's views.

[fuzzybriefsfan]

It's time we took a stand in the US against these religious nut-jobs. Their silly, superstitious, and hateful beliefs have NOTHING to do with the US Constitution.

Marriage is a legal contract - not everyone believes in the same God, or any God at all.

I support everyone's right to believe in whatever nonsense they choose - but keep it out of my schools, my government, and my bedroom.

[The Bondsman]

It will come as no surprise to anyone here that I fully endorse desusex's words above. I have long fought a campaign both in the media and personally), against religious based hatred and discrimination. The poor god-bothering bastards have nothing left other than the gays to vent their hatred on. They can't oppress women anymore, ...though they still try, ...and blacks are out of course, so it's just the gays now.
Their whole religion is up-against-the-wall, fading fast, and they know it.
The congregations are dwindling, ...and the televangelists are proving to have feet of shonky clay by the day.
Hitler knew that to unify any group you have to give them a common enemy, ....and the only group left open to the church is the gays. Hence what you are seeing.
Religion itself is a lifestyle choice. They themselves simply cannot accept this, ....whereas any gay person will tell you they were always gay. If there was a god, .....any of them would do, I would be burning a constant stream of incense, fatted calves or whatever the acceptable offering is now, on their altar for ensuring I was born gay!

I paraphrase another far more influential than I when I say; "When I hear the words "family values" I reach for my shotgun!"
Extreme? You bet, .....but when you consider the hatred and narrow minds that spew out this bile against us, I consider my reaction tame.
In an interesting aside, I had a door-caller one day who actually handed me a pamphlet full of their anti-gay shit! I think the poor women is still in hiding, ....but that's another story.
It is sad though to see children dragged along with these nutters, specially waving hate-placards at things like funeral protests, .....but thankfully I know many kids subjected to this foul indoctrination that have since escaped. It can be done.
OK so it will take perhaps a few more years than are allotted too me, but be assured, they are dwindling and dying out. And just as many gays are being born everyday as always were, .....more indeed with the population explosion.

I will remind everyone here though, that nothing, nothing at all starts until that day you look at yourself in the mirror and say "I am gay". Internalised homophobia just plays into the hands of those homo-hating arse-holes and puts you just where they want you!

[donnieboy1]

I just dont get how these people have the gall to say they are Christian or religious or whatever. The very fundamental basics of Christianity preach love, tolerance and respect for everyone. Moreover, the fundamental basics also teach you to NOT judge others. I hate how this stuff, which is all basically very good, is manipulated and twisted to suit a bunch of hypocrites who wouldn't know Christianity if it bit them on their arse. Spreading hate is precisely what Christianity preaches against.

All very sad but as i said in an earlier post, I am optimistic that future generations will have more freedom.

[hangright]

the basics of all christians is to love all,and forgive our sins and NOT TO JUDGE,LEAST THEE BE JUDGED.
the amount of two faced,lying male and females in todays churches is appalling,they think by getting dressed up and going to church 1-2 times a week makes them better than everyone else.
when my father was buried in feb,i asked the minister if he had gone to a better place,THE MINISTER SAID HE HAD NO IDEA,so much for his beliefs.
EVERYONE CAN BELIEVE,they can pray at home,they dont have to prove it to everyone else.

[The Bondsman]

the basics of all christians is to love all,and forgive our sins and NOT TO JUDGE,LEAST THEE BE JUDGED.
So ....er, ...why don't they adhere to this?

The "basics" of most oh-so-holier-than-thou christians these days seems to be upholding their own narrow minded prejudices from ages past; fear and discrimination of anyone "different"; pouring money into dubious but deliberate misinformation media campaigns to try to back up their own unsupportable ideas, ....and lobbying governments to act against their great anti-christ, ...and the only one they've got left they can still legally get away with persecuting, ...the gays.
That being said however, I STILL cannot understand or fathom why any gay person would want or even feel the need to belong to such a hateful institution, who shelters so many gays in denial within it's own ranks, professes love, tolerance, acceptance, and yet runs one of the most vicious and discriminatory campaigns against homosexuality.:confused::confused::confused:
To any gays struggling within the confines of any church I say get your arse out of there, find some self-respect from within and stop listening to people whose only agenda is to elevate themselves by putting you down, ...and keeping you down by feeding you a dogma of self-loathing. You do NOT need their approval, ...for anything.
Hey, I've probably been excommunicated more times than Elvis has been sighted, .........:rolleyes:;)

[deadgoodundiesdotcom]

Best quote i've ever heard

There is no God, we are the gods, each and everyone of us, we are the creators

Who said that quote??? Me about 5 mins ago :D can I start my own religion please where we just worship each other

For me (a straight guy) Love is love, sex is sex and no one has the right to impress on us or anyone any conditions on the above.

[The Bondsman]

can I start my own religion please where we just worship each other
Well I can think of far better reasons to spend time on my knees than reciting useless liturgy.
As for starting your own religion, ...why not?
Every bloody televangelist has a go these days, ...and the totally amazing thing is they get rich! Quick!
"No one ever went broke under-estimating the gullibilty of the general public!"
Who said that?
Wish I had, because it's SO true!
For me (a straight guy) Love is love, sex is sex and no one has the right to impress on us or anyone any conditions on the above.
Hmmmm, not too bad a philosophy, ..for a straight guy!
Commiserations on the bummer condition mate, .....genes can be such a bitch! ;) :D:D:D

[hangright]

silencing the christians.....i feel the reason they made this program(which i watched)is they are running scared.They are fighting a losing battle and they know it.
We are the last ones they can harrass,they cant do that to women,blacks,or other minoriety groups,so they tackle gay men and women instead.
That woman who claimed she was cured through jesus..she lied.she was never gay to start with,she was just a tomboy.
That mayor(norvel or something)closet gay,you can tell from the way he acts and speaks,he was extremly nervous.
If he wants to stop the spread of diseases...stop all the couples shagging around,and the single straights shagging around,this is what spreads it.
One last thing about this religious thing.....if god created man,then woman as we are told...Adam and Eve...they had kids,where did the rest of the human race come from? The straights have harrassed us for decades,Now we are fighting back,they dont like it but dont know what to do.
We have nothing to worry about.

[deadgoodundiesdotcom]

Adam and Eve...they had kids,where did the rest of the human race come from?
Norfolk of course (being a brit I do hope you get the joke)

[SweatyAussie]

The above posts have pretty much said it all... except there is one more thing I'd like to comment on:

Being gay is not a choice and there doesn't seem to be a "gay gene." Results of studies have been pointing to something that happens early in development (as in the womb.) Yet most of the anti-gay religious freaks use the argument that being gay is a lifestyle choice. 60 minutes did an interesting piece on trying to discover if gay is nature or nurture (which anyone who's gay knows the answer)
Huh? The implication seems to be that somehow it's worse if it's a lifestyle choice than if it's something you are born with. The opponents of this movement seem to get sidetracked and focus on the "nature or nurture" question, implying that if science were to provide a definitive answer to this controversy, that would lend more creedence to one side or the other.

In my opinion this is irrelevant. The salient point is that being gay as opposed to being straight hurts no one, except those who choose to take offense, so it should not be considered a sin or a crime.

[deusex]

Huh? The implication seems to be that somehow it's worse if it's a lifestyle choice than if it's something you are born with. The opponents of this movement seem to get sidetracked and focus on the "nature or nurture" question, implying that if science were to provide a definitive answer to this controversy, that would lend more creedence to one side or the other.

I agree with what you're saying, but for me, it was never a choice. And if "scholars, scientists and/or psychiatrists" do eventually find their proof that it's not a choice, then there goes half their arguments against us. The argument goes - According to them, God created us to procreate, that is the natural order of things. Then it's much easier to argue if being gay is not a choice, then God must have created us to be this way.

It's easy to say that these religious zealots just don't matter, but they have a lot of money and power and they know how to use scare tactics (like in the video) that don't work on educated logically thinking people, but do on small town uneducated people of middle America (That bought into the whole Sarah Palin allure) and ultra religious types who put so much blind faith into a god and a book.

edit -There's also lots of the same type of people up here in Canada, but the over the top religious freaks just don't have the same hold and power it seems.

[SweatyAussie]

I agree with what you're saying, but for me, it was never a choice. And if "scholars, scientists and/or psychiatrists" do eventually find their proof that it's not a choice, then there goes half their arguments against us. The argument goes - According to them, God created us to procreate, that is the natural order of things. Then it's much easier to argue if being gay is not a choice, then God must have created us to be this way.
Agreed... but what happens if "scholars, scientists and/or psychiatrists" find a proof that it IS a choice, and not part of our nature? If we have allowed the argument to hinge on whether or not homosexuality is in some way innate, then we are up shit creek.

All I am saying is that we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that whether it's "nature or nurture" is not the important thing. The important thing is that love is never wrong; there can be no crime, because there is no victim. You won't convince the zealots by this means, but it's the message we need to take to those who may be undecided.

[hangright]

Norfolk of course (being a brit I do hope you get the joke)

i get it,know a few from there,they live up here.

[The Bondsman]

When lulumae an me wuz gunna get hitched up, some city fella done tride tell uz we wuz kith nkin, an shudna bin a-doin it, but shore nuff tha gud lawd in his wisdum done blest owr holee yuneyun wif five fine yung uns n lulumae dun tol me thair be nother doo nex forl
that lulu-mae shore done got erself wun fiyun hed for them thair fem inin thins, ....plumb tuckers me owt tryin ter keep up sumtime.
now it seem our preecher man be a-tellin es thair bees a problum wif them thair homo ....homa ...homa sex ywals wantin ta marry up an all jest like us decen folks an all
kin yo magine thet weel daugy
preacha man dun got orl fired up lest sundy an bees atellin uz tha gud book sez thay bees ... ab abom abominayshun Yairs that bees it abom inashun er sumfin lik et anways
i esked lulumae wat he mean by thet and she sez don yo be eskin no dumass kwestyons an ifn it be the gud lawds wurd then it be gud enuf for kristyin foke slikes a lulumae en me

thay cain even breed nohow like us desen fokes an thay ain got no religin nohow terboot
sides we got ow own yung uns a be athinkin bowt now
seems them homo thingimee sinnas bees sum sort a pre vertz or sumfin n likes ta mess wif lil uns same uz i be amessin wif lulumae seeyin as we be lorfal man en wive afor tha eys a tha lawd sa help me gawd
seems it be down to us gawd feerin foks to see thet them thair homos an thair urn nacheral ects be agin tha lore an it be astayin thetaway for eva n eva ahmen
cain hev em gettin all uppity an thinkin theysas gud as normal folks lik me n lulumae I sez
Wez wuz a gunna be aritin us a letta to ow congresman jest asoon as we lern to be maykin us some a them thair sifars n-all, but lulumae sez we got owr religyon en tha gud lawd on owr side alredes
ownlee hav ta be a lookin et me n lulumae n ow five fine chilluns in this yere picha sum travelin man tuk too be a seein thet
rekon shes right i do :)

[graham]

Oh Bondy, you are a card!:D
Graham.

[The Bondsman]

Oh Bondy, you are a card!:D
Graham.
A card huh?
Should be "dealt" with??? ;) ;) :D

[hangright]

Best quote i've ever heard



Who said that quote??? Me about 5 mins ago :D can I start my own religion please where we just worship each other

For me (a straight guy) Love is love, sex is sex and no one has the right to impress on us or anyone any conditions on the above.

well said,i fully agree with that,if only more held your opinion the world would be alot better place to live in.

[deusex]

Not that this comes as a surprise, but I can't wait to see how the AFA spins this one. According to the AFA, the only reason the American Psychological Association removed homosexuality as a disorder in 1975 was due to gay activists storming one of their meetings.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/06/health/06gay.html?scp=2&sq=gay&st=cse

[hangright]

Not that this comes as a surprise, but I can't wait to see how the AFA spins this one. According to the AFA, the only reason the American Psychological Association removed homosexuality as a disorder in 1975 was due to gay activists storming one of their meetings.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/06/health/06gay.html?scp=2&sq=gay&st=cse

that is interesting,i know of one guy who was enjoying other mens company,was made to seek help and was supposedly cured!!
He basically just went with straight convetion,as at that time the church ruled,and you had to go with them or be turned against by the whole community.This was in the Island of Lewis,outer isles of scotland,but times are changing,the ferry companys have just started a sunday sailing,which until recently would never have been allowed(no,i was not that guy,in case anyone is wondering)he was not very strong willed,i would have told them where to go,and not politly.

[deadgoodundiesdotcom]

Scottish Island, Religion and over bearing community sounds a bit too much like
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070917/

[The Bondsman]

Scottish Island, Religion and over bearing community sounds a bit too much like
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070917/
If you are referring to "The Wicker Man", the original 1973 version is JUST bearable, (just!)...however the modern remake with Nicholas Cage is an utter abomination from start to finish. It's rare a movie makes me actually angry, :mad:but this one is SO bad it should go straight to the trash basket without even so much as a viewing! You have been warned....:rolleyes:

[deadgoodundiesdotcom]

Oh you are kidding me....... The original Wicker Man is one of the most creepiest films ever. Im not a horror fan at all but the Wicker Man gave me the willies.

[hangright]

Scottish Island, Religion and over bearing community sounds a bit too much like
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070917/

they were not far off that, but didnt(as far as i know)go as far as that.

[The Bondsman]

Oh you are kidding me....... The original Wicker Man is one of the most creepiest films ever. Im not a horror fan at all but the Wicker Man gave me the willies.
You are obviously not of the Wiccan persuasion. I'd have sued for blatant misrepresentation!
Still, you can have my copy of the Nicolas Cage idiocy if you want it, ....I was going to use it for clay-pigeon shooting practice!

[deadgoodundiesdotcom]

You are obviously not of the Wiccan persuasion.

No but this is a true story (and i'll take a picture later when im more awake for proof - literally just woke up and came down to check emails, orders and have first fag of the day).
When I was at 6th form college I was into death metal and very much interested in the Occult (first time in the real world, have to show my individualism and all that) - not in a practising way but various religions have always interested me in how they started, what makes people believe in them (and we a talking Catholicism , Judaism, Islam etc.) so I spent a lot of my free periods in the local library reading up on the Occult, Paganism and Wicca practices.
Anyway being 16 and free as you can imagine a lot of time was spent being drunk , smoking too much herb and generally partying everynight and on one of those said nights I thought it would be cool to go and get a tattoo.
So anyway in a drunken stupor off to the tattoo parlour and ask the tattooist to put a pentagram in a circle on my right arm.
So anyway got it done, wandered off home and went to bed and had a horrific hang over in the morning.
So in morning remembered that i'd had a tattoo..........The stupid Tattooist had done a St. Davids Star in a circle - never occurred to me that a Tattooist didn't know what a pentagram looked like.

So remember kids NEVER get a tattoo when you are drunk (although i've come to love mine, along with my piercings (but thats another story) )

Apologies for pic quality - had to use the video call camera on the phone rather than the good main one
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2518/imag0018otl.th.jpg (http://img13.imageshack.us/i/imag0018otl.jpg/)

[The Bondsman]

The stupid Tattooist had done a St. Davids Star in a circle - never occurred to me that a Tattooist didn't know what a pentagram looked like.
Oh deadegoodundiesdotcom, there is a salutary lesson in your story for everyone!
And you're not even Jewish?
And remember, what's seems dead-cool to you now, will in about five years look incredibly dorky!
Proof? Take a good look back at some old photos of your youth!
Bet you ask yourself "What was I thinking?"

[Tall Jack]

Thanks Adam (DGU) for this honest, cautionary tale - but your tatt is of the Star of David - the Jewish/Israeli symbol - nothing to do with St David, patron saint of your Welsh neighbours! (OK, I'm a pedant......)

[deadgoodundiesdotcom]

Proof? Take a good look back at some old photos of your youth!
Bet you ask yourself "What was I thinking?"

Naaa i just look back at old photos and think who was that young handsome man (ok apart from the quiff)

[deadgoodundiesdotcom]

Thanks Adam (DGU) for this honest, cautionary tale - but your tatt is of the Star of David - the Jewish/Israeli symbol - nothing to do with St David, patron saint of your Welsh neighbours! (OK, I'm a pedant......)

heheh sorry that was what I meant , I should never make posts first thing in the morning before im properly awake.

[SweatyAussie]

I am pretty sure a tattooist could be prosecuted here for tattooing someone who was underage. They are supposed to get proof of age.

Lots of tattoos are got on a whim, almost as a bit of a joke - the problem is, you had better hope the joke stays funny for the rest of your life because that's how long you are going to have to live with it, unless you opt for expensive and risky surgery to get it removed.

[The Bondsman]

You mean these are a "joke"?
What the hell could have been THAT funny?

[UKMotorbiker]

I have several tattoos. All of them were thought about, designed by myself and then considered where they would look best - and they all mean something to me. I would never get a tattoo somewhere visible though (lower arms, hands, neck, face!!). I can wear a short sleeved shirt to work and no one would know.

[BONNIE2006]

i have been gay from the day i was born i dont remember any choices and no offence but females have never done anything for me ever but thats fine i made no choice to be gay being 1 of 6 childen my mum had.she said and i quote "out of the 6 chidern i had i new one was going to be gay and i hoped i had a gay child"un quote my mum is a cristian but believes that you are what you are and she loves me no less than any other of her kids.

[The Bondsman]

i have been gay from the day i was born
I can beat that!
I have been gay from the day I was CONCEIVED!
i dont remember any choices
Neither you should, ...there are none!
And even IF I did have a choice, .....I would CHOOSE to be gay anyway!
(Just between you and I you understand, but them heteros is weird!)
my mum is a christian but believes that you are what you are and she loves me no less than any other of her kids.
And that's exactly the way it should be. Sounds like a fine woman your Mum!